Question 2

2.     What happens if or when the blue fleet entry sheet rises above 20


With the popularity of the blue fleet and the excessive cost of a new red fleet yawl, there may be a possibility that the blue fleet racing list may rise above 20 which is more than is allowed on the start line.  Do we look at seeding/promotion/relegation?  Do we reassess the status of some yawls above 141?  Numbers would not be sufficient, nor demand exist for the reintroduction of a green fleet.

Enter the debate.



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Big Debate Question 2

14 thoughts on “Big Debate Question 2

  • 03/02/2017 at 5:06 pm

    I agree with the “lets cross this bridge when we come to it” attitude as previously posted by AS.
    We have options available to us when the time comes no need to fret now.

  • 16/12/2016 at 4:11 pm

    I would encourage either a rolling handicap system (NHC) as used widely in yacht racing, or if this is thought too complicated, people being reseeded on performance, but until the fleets get too big, lets race together and find a system to agree the results. At least I may have company at the back of the fleet then!

  • 03/11/2016 at 10:48 pm

    And it would be great if both fleets drank more beer after racing at SYC … that is another aspect of racing that seems to have died off … perhaps if there was more drinking non Yawl sailors would recognise that either fleet is friendly, and are worth joining.

  • 03/11/2016 at 9:07 am

    Cross this bridge when or if it happens.
    Meanwhile, my experience is that:
    1. Red fleet starts are no more aggressive than blue fleet starts of similar numbers. The red fleet is more generally more disciplined during mark rounding. Less experienced crews should not be deterred from joining the red fleet.
    2. There are competitive red fleet boats on the market for less than the cost of refurbishing a boat for the blue fleet, and they will probably last for longer with less maintenance needed than an older boat.
    3. Neither fleet has a monopoly on “friendliness”. Both fleets appear to drink beer!

  • 02/11/2016 at 9:25 pm

    A few of the comments point towards fleeting based on performance, perhaps taking account of both horse and jockey.
    The principal club on the Firth of Forth, PEYC, has maintained excellent turnouts and good racing using a system of rolling handicaps, not unanimously popular but no-one can argue that they have not boosted turnouts and interest and, in the minds of the participants, ‘levelled the playing field’. You start off with your PY and this goes up or down after each race depending on your performance relative to the day’s average. Fleeting can then be flexible with cut-offs based on current handicaps. These rolling handicaps are used for Series racing and some, but not all, regattas.
    The PEYC rolling algorithms have been developed to dilute the impact of unusual patterns of results – such as half the fleet finishing and then the wind dies.
    There is no reason a boat could not maintain separate handicaps if there were different helms racing it, a plus for those of us trying to get our sons/ daughters to helm from time to time.
    I recollect this idea has been floated before and there was fear of the administration involved. PEYC use software that has the OOD enter finish times and then everything else – computing and posting results to the web, updating series positions and updating handicaps, is all done by the electronic elves when you press .

  • 01/11/2016 at 10:17 am

    Whatever the maximum number of boats, entry for the Open Meetings should be on a first come, first served basis. It encourages people to enter early. It seems to work OK for Merlin Week where they run a waiting list if people drop out.

  • 31/10/2016 at 11:03 pm

    The yacht club line has dealt with up to 30 Yawls in the past; though I accept that the exact number could be adjusted for health and safety reasons.

    I believe that Yawls of all ages should race together in as big a fleet that is practical, if there are 60 boats there should be 3 x 20 boat fleets; if there are 58 boats there should be 2 x 29 boat fleets; if there are 29 boats there should be one fleet. There should be promotion and demotion and a seedings committee.

    There should be podium prizes for each fleet plus pre-141 prizes.

  • 31/10/2016 at 4:01 pm

    Use the gold fleet for over flow numbers.

  • 31/10/2016 at 2:36 pm

    I am hopeful of having Y110 back on the water for racing next season and am in favour of flighting and allowing boats/helms to move up and down fleets.
    It seems to be the most equitable way of keeping everyone in the right company, although I can see it may create a need to re-think how some of the trophies are allocated – you might be a good enough sailor to make the top flight in a competitive Blue Fleet yawl, but you’ll never win any silverware, unless the trophies are allocated in such a way as to take this into account.

  • 31/10/2016 at 11:45 am

    With red fleet boats not being built and new owners seemingly encouraged to buy blue fleet boats the “what if scenario”of more than 20 blue fleet boats is a real possibility within 5 years. We need to look ahead and address this situation.

  • 29/10/2016 at 11:01 pm

    In my opinion the health of the class is all about motivation of the sailor/yawl owner. I appreciate it must be hard to provide good competition in a development class – to match different abilities and aspirations and pockets is a tough one. (some helms want to be seriously competitive but have older boats and some inexperienced new helms may be able to afford to buy a more competitive boat but feel intimidated in a higher fleet). In the horse world there are also partnerships between horse and rider and courses are set and there are partnership restrictions (track record of horse and rider together make that partnership ineligible for smaller classes to prevent pot hunting). This means by and large that an experienced rider can bring on a young horse or an inexperienced rider can develop confidence on an established competitive horse at the lower levels and progress when they feel confident to enjoy a bigger challenge. By and large competitors enter a level at which they are comfortable and progress of their own volition from there. This seems to work well to encourage good participation and competition.

  • 28/10/2016 at 3:40 pm

    We already have a gold fleet for this reason

  • 28/10/2016 at 11:16 am

    When this happened to me before …long ago now..we were moved up to the
    ‘Faster’ fleet.
    At that time the ‘old’ boats had not been rebuilt or re-rigged
    Maybe now the top helms in Blue might enjoy the challenge more than
    I did.
    Maybe they are better boats, sails, rigs…as well as helms ?

    One problem was loneliness at the back! Maybe if the top four went up at least they would feel a group…..
    … and the Committee could seed helms down ???

    I still feel the ‘designer ‘ division is broadly fair, but where an old boat
    Has now been re planked, made stiff, re-rigged etc.,,maybe a change

  • 28/10/2016 at 8:18 am

    When was the last time that blue fleet boats numbered more than 20? Most SYC regattas in recent years have seen something in the region of 15 – 18 boats out. This years regatta only saw around 8 – 10 boats on the water which was disappointing. Not sure this is mush of an issue.

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